Meet the Author with Robert J. De Boer
How does one apply micro-experiments in a complex environment where outcomes cannot be predicted beforehand?
Join us for another session of Meet the Author with Author Robert J. De Boer who will be discussing a doable approach to safety leadership with Gary Wong and Tamara Parris.
In this episode Author Robert J. De Boer discusses his book "Safety Leadership: A Different, Doable and Directed Approach to Operational Improvements".
This “how to” book for those responsible for the overall organizational performance offers a coherent “sensemaking” approach to safety that is different, doable and directed.
Incidents are a natural consequence of the complexity of the system.
- How does one apply micro-experiments in a complex environment where outcomes cannot be predicted beforehand?
- How does one embrace non-compliance as a starting point to gaining insight in operational performance?
- How does one create the freedom teams need to be curious without passing judgement, finding out about how work is really done?
View book: https://amzn.to/3lpi73n
01:05:15Anders Ellerstrand:Hi Robert and all
01:05:50Tamara Parris:Register for Safety Connect—our 3-day Virtual Safety Conference & Expo and be entered to win one of 3 GRAND PRIZES!! 😍 https://buff.ly/3uAwPXa
01:20:32Tanya Hewitt:I like this idea of the stop gradient - the "stop rule" needs to be seen as a retrospective management tool used only in hindsight.
01:22:36Rosa Carrillo:Sorry I have to leave this great conversation.
01:22:58Tanya Hewitt:the infamous "clay layer" ...
01:27:57Michael Cheveldave:I think we need to approach unease as a dynamic shifting quality of the work environment. It might be chronic if its really bad but I suspect its often dynamic and changing in context and severity. So what’s important is to have ongoing processes for monitoring, detecting, and diffusing unease. Done well I think this can inform both what is done (doable) and how we direct our actions to improve overall safety performance
01:29:28Paul Daly:Good example of the cobra effect (unintended consequences).
01:29:54Tom Osorio:Interesting to see a challenge for the 'clay layer' dynamic shifting and micro experiments in a high hazard environment will probably need (for compliance!) need to be managed with formal 'Management of Change' procedures.
01:30:49Tanya Hewitt:I wonder if perhaps our collective thinking has shied away from experiments - when you genuinely do not know the answer, and are willing to learn from the result. Experiments need to be predicated with hypotheses, and often we are bound by confirmation bias and the Dunning Kreuger effect thereafter. Not to mention the overall distrust of science that seems to be overtaking social media at this time. I just question if we can truly microexperiment in the sense that we typically talk about it.
01:33:01Paul Daly:Good point Tanya. Micro-experimentation/try-storming seems to be buzz phrases that perhaps are thrown about a lot more than actually implemented. Innovation is perhaps not flourishing either as much as we would like or promote.
01:36:08Tom Osorio:Is the challenge of micro experiments, is that they need to be fast?
01:37:06David de Jong:Edmondson has a very good talk on experimenting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Ub1xfSQ1s
01:37:56Paul Daly:On the topic of red tape and blue tape... https://www.ioshmagazine.com/blue-tape-business-rules-report-aims-help-smes-find-proportionate-advice
01:38:50Tanya Hewitt:Thanks for sharing @Paul and @David!
01:40:23Paul Daly:Interesting point @Tom. In the current climate it feels like everything does have to be fast!
01:41:39Paul Daly:SMART interventions? (with the T being timely)
01:43:27Paul Daly:“Good artists borrow, great artists steal.”
01:43:58Robert de Boer:😅
01:45:37Michael Cheveldave:Fully agree with boundedness in terms of time. Duration and speed should match the pace of change and variability of the work environment.
01:48:19Tanya Hewitt:"Embrace the Red, Challenge the Green"
01:51:45Michael Cheveldave:Earlier comment copied again: I think we need to approach unease as a dynamic shifting quality of the work environment. It might be chronic if its really bad but I suspect its often dynamic and changing in context and severity. So what’s important is to have ongoing processes for monitoring, detecting, and diffusing unease. Done well I think this can inform both what is done (doable) and how we direct our actions to improve overall safety performance
01:52:17Tanya Hewitt:Very rooted in Indigenous cultures ...
01:53:17Tanya Hewitt:Here's a really incredible practice that I heard of recently https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/off-work-for-8-years-woman-says-she-got-her-life-back-with-unique-kind-of-talk-therapy-1.5978383
01:58:25Tamara Parris:Great comments in the chat today! THank you everyone.
01:58:33Paul Daly:Western agentive language also tends brings the blame down to the person compared to others.
01:58:45Tamara Parris:Amazing conversation both in and off chat! Thank you Robert for joining us today
01:58:50Michael Cheveldave:Perhaps good reason to address restorative aspects of investigations separately from systemic and practice improvements
01:58:55Tanya Hewitt:Absolutely @Paul...
02:00:44Tanya Hewitt:I loved when I saw this https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tanya-hewitt-55804529_humanperformance-legal-ottawacanada-activity-6847986320883761152-WB0F
02:02:46Tom Osorio:I am an optimist: maybe micro experiments by lawyers and investigators could have a powerful cumulative improvement?
02:04:02Paul Daly:That conversation reminded me of the case of Sally Clarke and miscarriage of justice (and statistics). May have been in a David Spiegelhalter article or podcast.
02:04:56Robert de Boer:Oh and: avoid jargon (if you can)!!
02:05:21Robert de Boer:https://www.routledge.com/Safety-Leadership-A-Different-Doable-and-Directed-Approach-to-Operational/Boer/p/book/9780367652753
02:05:34Paul Daly:Thanks everyone. I was late joining (work got in the way here on a Friday afternoon!) so I'll catch up on the recording.
02:06:06Anders Ellerstrand:Thanks a lot for a very good session!
Robert J. de Boer, Owner of Blue Wave Consulting Company, Professor of Safety Management at SDO Hogeschool voor Moderne Bedrijfskunde
Robert J. de Boer MSc PhD (1965) was trained as an aerospace engineer at Delft University of Technology. He majored in man-machine systems and graduated cum laude in 1988 on the thresholds of the vestibular organ. After gaining experience in line management and consulting he joined Fokker Technologies in 1999, where he was appointed as the Director of Engineering from 2002 2007. He switched to academia mid-career and was awarded his PhD in May 2012 at the Delft University of Technology. From 2009 to 2018 Robert was appointed as Professor of Aviation Engineering at the Amsterdam University of Applied Science. Robert is currently the director of SDO University of Applied Sciences in the Netherlands, and also a professor of Safety Management there. He is active as a scientist and consultant in the oil & gas industry, defense, nuclear power, heathcare and aviation. He helped create a massively succesful NHS course on Restorative Just Culture, and his book on Safety Leadership was published in Spring 2021 by CRC press.