In this episode we speak with Laurin Mooney about why telling people to "speak up" fails as a strategy and how the new strategy of "Speaking IN®" will help us unlock our most valuable asset, what our people know, with our hosts Rosa Carrillo and Tamara Parris.



Session Chat:

00:31:28Gabe Encarnacion:Hi everyone! Looking forward to the discussion today!
00:31:59Tanya Hewitt:Hi all - I am coming from Ottawa Ontario Canada
00:32:43Audrey Silver:Hello from England. No camera that works, so not being shy.
00:34:34Rosa Carrillo:Welcome all!
00:34:47Janice Fingler:Hello from Vancouver
00:35:27Jill Alexander:What types of industry do we all represent? Healthcare? Construction/Industry here!
00:35:44Josh Welp:Construction
00:35:48Rob Kreté:Chemical industry
00:36:10Phillip Harris:Nuclear Power
00:36:16Gary Wong:Jill: Mainly focus on Safety for all industries
00:36:30Dr. Jo Lichten:health and wellness as it affects productivity and performance
00:36:41Tanya Hewitt:Sound like stop work authority (and how useful that is)
00:38:12Tanya Hewitt:Dave Woods a few weeks ago spoke of the novelty inequality - pre and post a crisis are seen markedly differently than during the crisis.
00:40:52Tanya Hewitt:Once organizations become healthy, meetings are the most exciting part of the day!
00:41:16Rob Kreté:Aren’t many people afraid to lose face whilst speaking up?
00:41:20Janice Fingler:In a rewarding way... that resonated with me. Economics and value seems to have a part in this?
00:42:07Rosa Carrillo:losing face is a huge fear
00:42:08Tanya Hewitt:@Janice - absolutely - it's all connected.
00:42:26Janice Fingler:what do we know about flow of value (perceived and real) and how that ties into speaking up.
00:42:28Gabe Encarnacion:@Tanya...YES! I've been in some great meetings but those have been few and far between.
00:44:29Gabe Encarnacion:Culture and personal background have a huge effect on peoples' ability and willingness to speak up.
00:45:12Tanya Hewitt:I have am chair of an organization now, and I decided to change things up while I am there. The first meeting I held we did not have a guest speaker, and people were in breakout groups. One group was just 2 people - for 40 mins! One was an exec member, and he shared with me that in person, he would never have talked to that member the way he did during our meeting. As Rosa said - dyads are really powerful to get people talking.
00:45:33Tanya Hewitt:We are talking about functional stupidity in the rough!
00:47:04Gabe Encarnacion:https://www.callearning.com/blog/2010/06/communication-and-cultural-thought-patterns/
00:48:00Tanya Hewitt:I pulled this from LinkedIn the other day, and incorporated it in my talk just yesterday on functional stupidity "The greatest prison people live in is the fear of what others think"
00:49:33Tanya Hewitt:Embrace the Red, Challenge the Green!!
00:50:35Mike Phillips:Just saying, "thank you", and recognizing someone for sharing, for contributing, for questioning, for challenging, etc. encourages more feedback and ultimately, learning.
00:50:37Tanya Hewitt:Alan Mullaly!!!!
00:51:26Gary Wong:Has anyone used Six Thinking Hats and the power of Parallel Thinking?
00:52:09David Christenson:Creating an environment of rewarded vulnerability must be intentional. Tim Clark, PhD
00:52:10Amish's iPhone 10s Max:Can’t have a speak up culture without leaders listening down, authentically.
00:52:59Tanya Hewitt:But we need to understand - societally, we do not value the leaders who do this in the way we are talking. They do not make the news. They are not boasting about their stock prices. They are not in it for the rewards of leadership. They are in it for the responsibility - the privilege of serving people. And they will not make the news. They will not be celebrated they way our society celebrated leadership.
00:53:57Tanya Hewitt:Vulnerability based trust is at the heart of all of this
00:54:51Gabe Encarnacion:Agree, @Rob. People will follow the actions of what the manager. If you want your people to ask questions, ask for help, or share ideas, the leader should lead by example and do the same!
00:55:03Mike Phillips:@Gary, we tried the hats approach on a project. I think the benefits were limited because we were not using the same approach across the organization. People felt uncomfortable and sometimes got confused. But, I do think it allowed better thinking to surface. Perhaps it was more creative, and eventually more collaborative, since most everyone was out of there natural element. It was an interesting experiment.
00:55:48Gary Wong:@Mike: Thanks for the feedback. For those interested in the technique - https://www.12manage.com/methods_bono_six_thinking_hats.html
00:56:00Jill Alexander:Consistency is critical, you have to build the trust and open communication based on history and actions
00:57:04Amish's iPhone 10s Max:Also, know your team allow for time and be accessible for folks to Speak Up at a later time.
00:57:13Jill Alexander:Speak IN sounds collaborative where Speak UP is it’s all on you
00:57:20David Christenson:A similar question, “Please help me to understand.”
00:57:38Audrey Silver:Maybe it's more a British thing, but people rarely speak up unless they have some knowledge of the other(s) and something in common. Allowing and encouraging some small talk rather than just 'calling the meeting to order' and then expecting open discourse. It's not timewasting
00:57:44Gary Wong:If unintended consequences are a prime reason people don’t speak, how can we listen anonymously?
00:58:17Harvey Liss:One way to create "safe" space to speak up is to break the total group into smaller groups. This Zoom meeting is a perfect example of a lot of people who have thoughts and something to say ,but allow 5-6 people to speak up.
00:58:18Tanya Hewitt:From Peter Pronovost - how will the next patient be harmed?
00:59:06carissa imrecke:@Harvey - I agree! I don’t feel as comfortable to speak up in large groups as I do in groups of 3 or less
00:59:23Jill Alexander:Officevibe is a great anonymous employee survey tool used here at Safewaze
00:59:29Tamara Parris:If you know of tools that might help to encourage discussion, please share on with us here 😀
00:59:29Rosa Carrillo:Good point Harvey. We usually have much fewer people and were not prepared for a large group.
00:59:56Tanya Hewitt:That's because Laurin is a superstar!
01:00:29Tamara Parris:We will include the chat on our episode page on Safeopedia
01:00:31Tamara Parris:https://www.safeopedia.com/topic/182/safeopedia-podcasts
01:00:59Tanya Hewitt:https://www.thegreyz.one/home
01:02:12Suzanne Jackson:Yes, we can get much more creative with what we consider a leading indicator. We tend to promote "safety work" as leading indicators e.g. inspections, meetings, toolbox talks,,,,but "safety of work" leading indicator may be things like #jobs performed on ground vs. @ height
01:02:20David Christenson:David Garvin’s 2000 book “Learning in Action” is a great one that is based upon real learning organization case studies.
01:02:45Jill Alexander:Challenger Sale is all about finding the pain point that will be the catalyst for change
01:03:07Mike Phillips:Being available, and accessible, as a leader also makes a difference. I managed a team that was completely remote and constantly traveling.. Much of my time was spent traveling to see them, where they were working that week. We may have only talked in person once per month and they seemed satisfied with that frequency. It was very interesting that when travel stopped due to the pandemic, we were still remote, but shifted to Zoom and Teams, not traveling.. My team actually requested one on one meetings more frequently. The disruption caused by the pandemic, and the uncertainty that everyone was navigating, required more time in "care" management.
01:03:20Tanya Hewitt:I recommend people watch Andy Whitley's talk that he gave this morning at the Paradigm Human Performance webinar - it should be up in about 24 hrs on their website.
01:04:07Jill Alexander:Gary Vee - your employees don’t work for you, YOU WORK FOR THEM
01:04:29Tanya Hewitt:"Leaning in to the danger" is a real skill that leaders need to develop
01:04:40Joe Drago:Consider this HBR article: Is Yours a Learning Organization?
by David A. Garvin, Amy C. Edmondson, and Francesca Gino
From the Magazine (March 2008
https://hbr.org/2008/03/is-yours-a-learning-organization
01:04:41Janice Fingler:What motivates leaders...
01:05:12Tanya Hewitt:You got it Janice - The Motive (Pat Lencioni) talks exclusively about this.
01:07:03Janice Fingler:Are leaders/executives from different organizations gathering anywhere as a bit of a mastermind to learn together? Would love to hear of those as an example to share out.
01:07:41Gary Wong:Sensemaking….https://sensemaker.cognitive-edge.com/
01:07:44Janice Fingler:So they can first be vulnerable with each other - like an adjacent possible
01:08:59David Christenson:.Making sense is a temporary, flexible, changeable opportunity. Making a decision is something difficult to change, often protected and polished positioning by the decision maker.
01:09:06Tanya Hewitt:Organizational health will get people to engage in personal development
01:10:28Tanya Hewitt:#introspection #self reflection !!!!
01:11:31Tanya Hewitt:YOU NEED TO BE HUMBLE - this is a key message
01:12:08Phillip Harris:The Iceberg of Ignorance
01:12:36Tanya Hewitt:Ego is the enemy
01:12:43Jill Alexander:What about Speaking IN “in the moment” - since we are talking about safety which can be time critical even when there is not yet a listening environment
01:12:45jeremy iphone:often when you humble yourself you find a tremendous amount of positive aspects that you didn’t know about
01:13:05Audrey Silver:It took me a long time to learn to listen, not taught in safety.
01:13:11jeremy iphone:it’s not just about seeing “bad” things
01:13:35Tanya Hewitt:That's right @Jeremy - it's seeing reality, seeing true things
01:15:30Tanya Hewitt:The world of work is changing - personal character is going to figure far more going forward than it has in the past
01:15:47Brooke Thomsen:I totally agree with Jeremy. I think that acknowledging that you noticed an employee working safely goes a long way in reinforcing the desired behaviors - especially when you are trying to get an employee change a bad habit.
01:16:10Jill Alexander:Very true, Brooke!
01:17:09Robert Gilbert:Let us not dismiss that often extraversion is a key characteristic of many leaders and that many tend to arrogance to their leadership journey. I agree that many want to listen, but the arrogance tends to overpower the listening muscle. My apologies to my fellow extraverts or near extraverts! Part of the solution is checking the arrogance at the door before speaking to people (employees, peers, and all).
01:17:46Rosa Carrillo:Great point Rob!
01:17:51Tanya Hewitt:It's not everywhere - but look up Alan Mullaly - a real leader that few people know of (this is what I am talking about - we all know Elon Musk etc.)
01:18:31Suzanne Jackson:And don't forget that the followership is just as important as the leadership - its reciprocal.
01:23:43Jill Alexander:[email protected] if anyone has suggestions for speaking IN “ in the moment” in a critical safety case in an environment that may not yet be INclusive
01:24:18Robert Gilbert:Suzanne …. I totally agree! I’d say in many circles and situations, followership may be a critical aspect to success in leadership. I think leading is all too difficult if you don’t know how to be humble and to be able to follow and demonstrate following.
01:24:33carissa imrecke:Thank you Tanya for sharing!!
01:27:16Suzanne Jackson:Great points Tanya!
01:27:37Janice Fingler:It can be lonely at the top
01:27:42Tanya Hewitt:Thanks Suzanne, Carissa!
01:28:06Fred Stawitz:Good points about society Tawnya!
01:28:21Tanya Hewitt:Thanks so much, Fred!
01:28:38Janice Fingler:classic book! Six Thinking Hats
01:29:38Phillip Harris:Thank you all, I must go.
01:29:58Janice Fingler:Thank you everyone ! must run!
01:30:13Tamara Parris:By Phillip and Janice
01:30:31Tanya Hewitt:I will need to go too - great discussion - thanks everyone!
01:31:00Jon Lukin:Thank you all, I have to run!
01:32:14Mike Phillips:Great conversation today, Laurin, Tamara, Rosa!And also to Gary, Tanya, and Janice. So much talent and so much knowledge sharing. Always an enriching experience. I appreciate your platform. Thank you! Have to run...
01:32:41Fred Stawitz:Gary ... good point on realizing that everyone in the room may come from a different perspective and getting them under the same hat takes letting them know their perspectives have been heard. Often that takes time that isn't alloted to the meeting or project.
01:32:54Tamara Parris:Let's keep the conversation going! We have a private LinkedIn discussion room: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/13940372/
01:34:34Rosa Carrillo:Thank you everyone!
01:34:46Brooke Thomsen:Thank you. When will the next discussion be held?
01:35:08Tamara Parris:Brooke we will send out an invite.
01:35:25Brooke Thomsen:Thanks!

More About “The Safety View

Each one-hour session is hosted by an expert or stakeholder in safety performance. And each session invites all attendees to participate, listen, and learn from each other and through conversation and shared experiences. Collectively, we explore the human system’s impact on safety and performance - relationally, psychologically, and socially.


We look forward to discussing this intriguing topic with you, and hope you are able to attend. However, if unable to attend, please know that all sessions will be available for view, by registrants and non-registrants alike, through the Safeopedia websitehttps://www.safeopedia.com/topic/182/safeopedia-podcasts

After a brief introduction to the topic and sharing of relevant research, the floor will be open for group conversation. We invite ALL to share their thoughts, and will openly embrace - actually encourage - different perspectives. We really want to hear from all, from those who can share measurable, scientific concepts, those who have knowledge gained from experience, and those who intend to learn and understand more.

Group Rules of Conduct:

➤Build each other up to encourage and grow our ideas. Our group goal is to learn, share and expand our views.

➤ If you disagree, first repeat what you heard and get acknowledgement that you understand what others have tried to propose.

➤Use "I think", "feel", "have discovered" during respectful rebuttals of others opinions and ideas.

➤ Be prepared to agree, to disagree as views will be different, from our own and we want to nurture others.

Regular Hosts of the Safety View are:

Rosa Carrillo author of The Relationship Factor in Safety Leadership, safety leadership consultant, MS in Organizational development.

Tamara Parris, Community Development, Bachelors of Social Work, Occupational Health and Safety, and Emergency Management.

Our Guest

Laurin Mooney High Reliability & "Speaking IN®" Coach

Laurin helps people learn, live, and love High Reliability Organizing. Her expertise is translating the why and how of HRO into models that are easy to understand and can be used by anyone, anywhere. The High Reliability Mindfulness Map is easy to understand and integrate into any work. However, she saw a huge barrier to high reliability in organizations, a lack of psychological safety causing people to remain silent. Recognizing the flaws and failure of the “speak up” strategy, she innovated the Speaking IN® model and practice. This leader-based model can transform the experience of seeking and speaking truth in an organization by helping people understand the power of diverse perspectives. Laurin keeps everything fast, fun and memorable by using animals, drawings and simple questions you can use every day.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurin-mooney-690b6253

Website: https://www.speakingin.org

Website: https://www.behighlyreliable.com