Join Rob Krete as he reads from his book "Safety from Within", shares his insights and has an open discussion with our live audience as they ask questions.
00:31:54Rosa Carrillo:hello Carsten!
00:32:14Rosa Carrillo:Hello Tanya and Gordon!
00:32:39Tanya Hewitt:Thanks Rosa! And thanks to Tamara for the revised link.
00:32:43Carsten:Hi everyone. So great to see some people "live" that I so far only know per mail and LinkedIn :-)
00:33:26Tamara Parris:Hi Everyone, if you have any question please let us know!
00:35:40Lisa Lande:Will do, Tamara!
00:36:11Lisa Lande:I’m hearing we must trigger the WIIFM for workers to be engaged, want to be safe.. WIIF = ‘what’s in it for me”
00:36:41Lisa Lande:Links in my mind too, to hiring individuals who are intrinsically motivated. Thoughts on that, Rob?
00:36:51Tanya Hewitt:Absolutely Lisa - the patriarchal approach should not govern the workplace
00:38:07Carsten:On the other hand... there are people who want to be told, or are uncomfortable thinking for themselves.
00:38:50Carsten:Which probably relates (at least in part) to cultural elements.
00:38:59Lisa Lande:Matriarchs rule too though, Tanya. So yes, our goal is shared rulership, shared engagement, adult to adult.
00:39:24Rosa Carrillo:By cultural I meant Norwegian culture
00:39:37Tanya Hewitt:This is a good point Carsten - treating people as a homogeneous group is dangerous - as they most certainly are not.
00:39:47Tanya Hewitt:Culture is local.
00:40:27Carsten:I just wanted to say - I think Scandinavian culture(s) is one element, but the organisational (and even sub-unit) cultures are probably more important.
00:40:57Lisa Lande:It’s maybe the social contract that exists in whichever environment.
00:41:09Carsten:How your manager reacts will probably have important impact whether you dare to think for yourself. Or speak up. Or even bother to speak.
00:41:47Lisa Lande:As well as your colleagues…I think it is many directional, the impact others have on our behavior, Carsten.
00:42:43Lisa Lande:AND yes, clearly as long as the formal manager has a say on the worker’s ability to succeed, will influence behavior…the social contract.
00:43:48Rosa Carrillo:Where do they learn social skills?
00:44:27Lisa Lande:I look forward to the day everyone in the workforce is a safety professional!
00:44:30Tanya Hewitt:This whole coronavirus experience is a great analogy - you can report at country level, but that doesn't represent how things are in my area. You can go to a state level, but that might not be good enough either. Public health is at regional local level, which is the best way to report COVID-19 as it is for people who are living with the virus (the restrictions, the health system capacity, etc.) Organizational culture can be seen similarly - it is a local thing. You can report on it at higher levels, but that is at the expense of the granularity that gives the concept its richness.
00:44:55Lisa Lande:And sees themselves as consciously and competently committed to safety
00:45:33Lisa Lande:I think it is local, community, organizational, national, global too, Tanya.
00:51:22Lisa Lande:…I’m not being clear, Tanya: my point is, that sense of safety - or strong conviction to act even if safety doesn’t exist - is necessary to speak up at whatever label. And I have experienced having more comfort speaking up to higher management than to my own local group.
00:52:13Lisa Lande:not label…level
00:52:47Tanya Hewitt:It is difficult to speak up to peers ...
00:53:08Lisa Lande:Maybe even harder at times, due to the desire to “fit in”?
00:53:41Tanya Hewitt:The first level of Tim Clark's 4 stages of psychological safety - you nailed it Lisa.
00:53:46Carsten:What do you mean by peers - other safety professionals?
00:55:04Tanya Hewitt:Other people in your immediate sphere of influence - co-workers, team members - the "us" of us and them". Although this depends heavily on the relationship you have with them.
00:58:07Tanya Hewitt:"soft" needs to be replaced with "critical people" - soft skills become critical people skills
00:58:57Carsten:Ok, thanks. I think it may depend very much on the subject. I tend to have little problem speaking up to my peers, but I do avoid certain sensibilities (touchy subjects).
01:02:08Tanya Hewitt:This could be helpful at the level of teams https://www.ted.com/talks/patrick_lencioni_are_you_an_ideal_team_player - in short, ideal team members need to be humble, hungry, and smart (emotionally intelligent). Of these, humble is the most important. He has labels for missing hungry (lovable slacker), missing smart (accidental mess maker) and the most dangerous, missing humble (skillful politician).
01:04:16Tamara Parris:Thank you Tanya for the great share!
01:04:50Tamara Parris:You can purchase Rob's book here : https://en.veiligheidvanbinnenuit.nl/webwinkel
01:05:07Tanya Hewitt:We are close to losing altogether Socratic thinking - where questions and curiosity reign supreme.
01:05:38Lisa Lande:Tanya, you rock; thank you. Looking forward by the way, of seeing you on Paradigm next week! :-)
01:06:05Tanya Hewitt:Thanks, @Tamara, @Lisa !
01:06:10Carsten:Why can't we "like" comments :-)
01:06:50Lisa Lande:Didn’t know that capability exists, Carsten. Nice. But don’t know the answer. Tamara might.
01:07:03Tamara Parris:LinkedIn share > George Rose• FollowingAvailable For Next Opportunity (Retired) Deputy Director, Emergency Management Lowell, MA / Deputy Sheriff Middlesex CountyROI ... sell it to management. How do presenters approach this?
01:07:14Tanya Hewitt:Andy is describing the importance of service - of helping others. This needs to become central.
01:07:22Tamara Parris:George Rose - ROI ... sell it to management. How do presenters approach this?
01:07:23Carsten:No, it does in Teams I think. But I would have liked Tanya's ;-)
01:07:45Lisa Lande:Love service as a measure of meaning as we shift our “safety” metrics.
01:08:28Rosa Carrillo:I imagine trust and quality of “service” are related.
01:08:51Lisa Lande:Yes, maybe foundational to “caring” to serve and seeing it as our right and responsibility too.
01:09:52Lisa Lande:Can we discuss needed metric changes? What does Rob sees these as being in our fresh approach to safety?
01:10:23Tanya Hewitt:Amazing what injecting a bit of humanity in the workplace can do.
01:10:29Andy Barker:I think it is in the nature of human beings to collaborate around ideas that support out "purpose" - so if we are helpful, it becomes very natural to build relationships - most issues I see in relationships are where people aren't "helpful" and disengagement follows
01:11:15Lisa Lande:Heart and mind, heart and mind. Curious how we reinforce their separation through our metrics and our goals.
01:11:16Rosa Carrillo:Andy you have proven that!
01:11:45Carsten:I agree with that Andy. It can actually be as simple as helping them with the toner for the Xerox machine, or how to fix a crash in Word.
01:11:48Lisa Lande:Lovely and correct comments, Andy.
01:11:55Andy Barker:we value contribution and "value" - one of those things is being "asked" for you ideas - that is a bit of vulnerability that leads to trust, and a positive feeling of being valued
01:12:51Andy Barker:Also, to Carsten's point, being helpful doesn't take much!!
01:12:52Tanya Hewitt:Andy - you got it. Lencioni's model is Trust, Conflict, Commitment, Accountability, Results - in that order.
01:14:00Andy Barker:Now that we are talking about Maslow - is "safety" actually a feeling and not a corporate thing that we've made a word of that gets defined in terms of "risk" and "hazard" and "maths"
01:14:09Rosa Carrillo:Carsten helping someone with their computer creates relationship that you can leverage when you need their help
01:15:12Andy Barker:@Rosa - so right, funny how you have to give something to get something!! Trust and relationships are like that, every culture every where
01:15:32Lisa Lande:Tony Muchara, Rob Ferris, and Jim Marinus are releasing a new book on critical steps, which seems to correlate with what Rob is speaking too…focus on the what must go right and ignore the noise. Similar to situational awareness.
01:21:06Carsten:Andy - regarding the safety and feeling comment - I have just finished Loewenstein et al's paper Risk-as-feeling. Great stuff. Recommended.
01:21:47Lisa Lande:Great resource share, Carsten.
01:22:22Tamara Parris:Thank you Carsten for the resource!
01:22:22Carsten:It's not the final version. Sorry. Got that on another computer...
01:22:39Rosa Carrillo:Thank you Carten!
01:23:00Gordon Foot:Cheers Carsten
01:23:03Lisa Lande:Active Bystander: https://www.wur.nl/en/activity/Active-Bystander-intervention-training.htm
01:23:59Tanya Hewitt:I saw earlier on LinkedIn a tragic story … a guy showed up for work very sullen, did not interact as he normally did - but his colleagues thought "Best to give him his space" - he went on to use heavy equipment and killed someone. It turned out the night before, his wife with a suitcase and the kids in tow, told him "I'm leaving you".
01:24:12Lisa Lande:Great whiplash perspective, Tamara.
01:24:53Tamara Parris:Thank you!
01:25:10Lisa Lande:Self imposed AND reinforced strongly by society and social norms, Rosa. Both are true.
01:25:39Tamara Parris:spot on Lisa!
01:26:42Lisa Lande:Thanks, Tamara.
01:26:57Tanya Hewitt:I remember telling labour relations at my previous employer "you have no idea how difficult it is for me to be sitting here - how most issues are not even getting here" - yet the HR statistics ruled communicating the issues in the workforce - how senior leadership was presented the information.
01:28:33Tanya Hewitt:Near miss reporting - or they just don't see it as worthy of reporting, in conflict with their vision of themselves as problem solvers … etc.
01:28:55Lisa Lande:Nice of you to pull folks in, Gary! :-)
01:29:27Tanya Hewitt:I have another call - but great discussion! Thanks for the hour!
01:29:41Lisa Lande:Bye Tanya! See you next week. You’ll be terrific.
01:29:47Rosa Carrillo:Tanya, it is about power and control in your example.
01:30:32Lisa Lande:Thank you, John. Well said.
01:30:32Carsten:Power is an under-appreciated and under-discussed subject in safety (and risk).
01:30:38Tamara Parris:Thank you Rob for joining us today!
01:31:02Tamara Parris:You can purchase Rob's book here : https://en.veiligheidvanbinnenuit.nl/webwinkel
01:31:20Lisa Lande:Power, and control, Carsten. We need these elements too. Important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and see these aspects are just as important and even conducive to safety.
01:31:26Fred Stawitz:Carsten ... good to see you!
01:31:29Rosa Carrillo:Carsten the article you sent me from Anton
01:32:48Kai Gransee:sorry, issues with audio and video
01:32:48Fred Stawitz:Thanks everyone!
01:32:50Carsten:Great session. God Jul!
01:32:55Kai Gransee:thank you
Rob has thirty seven years of profound management and consultancy experience.
Flourishing individuals, teams and organisations whilst working as production manager, project manager, site manager and consultant within the processing industry in The Netherlands, USA, UK and Venezuela
Available for: Business consultancy HSE-training HSE-inspirational speaker
Please visit www.veiligheidvanbinnenuit.nl
Each one-hour session is hosted by an expert or stakeholder in safety performance. And each session invites all attendees to participate, listen, and learn from each other and through conversation and shared experiences. Collectively, we explore the human system’s impact on safety and performance - relationally, psychologically, and socially.
After a brief introduction to the topic and sharing of relevant research, the floor will be open for group conversation. We invite ALL to share their thoughts, and will openly embrace - actually encourage - different perspectives. We really want to hear from all, from those who can share measurable, scientific concepts, those who have knowledge gained from experience, and those who intend to learn and understand more.
Group Rules of Conduct:
- Build each other up to encourage and grow our ideas. Our group goal is to learn, share and expand our views.
- If you disagree, first repeat what you heard and get acknowledgement that you understand what others have tried to propose.
- Use "I think", "feel", "have discovered" during respectful rebuttals of others opinions and ideas.
- Be prepared to agree, to disagree as views will be different.from our own and we want to nurture others.
Regular Hosts are:
Gary Wong, Complexity Facilitator at Gary Wong & Associates, Bachelor of Applied Science, Masters of Business Administration, safety and organizational change from a complexity perspective.
Tamara Parris, Community Development, Bachelors of Social Work, Occupational Health and Safety, and Emergency Management.
Rosa Carrillo author of The Relationship Factor in Safety Leadership, safety leadership consultant, MS in Organizational development.
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